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	<title>Comments on: Mormon leadership comes out in support of (some) basic rights for (some) LGBT Utahns</title>
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	<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/</link>
	<description>A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism.</description>
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		<title>By: Sunday in Outer Blogness: Personal Narratives Edition! &#124; Main Street Plaza</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71948</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunday in Outer Blogness: Personal Narratives Edition! &#124; Main Street Plaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71948</guid>
		<description>[...] an unrelated note, Outer Blogness is ringing with follow-up commentary about the SLC anti-discrimination law: Holly Noelle says &#8220;Well, Duh&#8221; and goes back to debating gay marriage. Daniel Midgely [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an unrelated note, Outer Blogness is ringing with follow-up commentary about the SLC anti-discrimination law: Holly Noelle says &#8220;Well, Duh&#8221; and goes back to debating gay marriage. Daniel Midgely [...]
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		<title>By: chanson</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71942</link>
		<dc:creator>chanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71942</guid>
		<description>Regarding that quote (pulled by Craig #11):

It&#039;s really disturbing how desperate they are to pin the accusation of &quot;violence&quot; onto their opponents -- just &lt;a href=&quot;http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/10/16/a-brave-new-definition-of-free-speech/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;as Oaks did&lt;/a&gt; in his talk.

It looks like they &lt;i&gt;wish&lt;/i&gt; that there&#039;d been some actual violence against Mormons so they could dismiss their opponents as villains.

Also (as I said &lt;a href=&quot;http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/10/16/a-brave-new-definition-of-free-speech/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;), one could argue that by pinning that accusation on his opponents, he’s setting up a justification for violence against his opponents.  I dismissed this possibility at the time, but if this fantasy that the &quot;defenders of marriage&quot; are somehow the victims of &quot;violence&quot; becomes a pattern and a fixation, I&#039;m no longer so sure.  After all, the rhetoric about abortion-providers being &quot;murderers&quot; has led to abortion-providers getting murdered for real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding that quote (pulled by Craig #11):</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really disturbing how desperate they are to pin the accusation of &#8220;violence&#8221; onto their opponents &#8212; just <a href="http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/10/16/a-brave-new-definition-of-free-speech/" rel="nofollow">as Oaks did</a> in his talk.</p>
<p>It looks like they <i>wish</i> that there&#8217;d been some actual violence against Mormons so they could dismiss their opponents as villains.</p>
<p>Also (as I said <a href="http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/10/16/a-brave-new-definition-of-free-speech/" rel="nofollow">here</a>), one could argue that by pinning that accusation on his opponents, he’s setting up a justification for violence against his opponents.  I dismissed this possibility at the time, but if this fantasy that the &#8220;defenders of marriage&#8221; are somehow the victims of &#8220;violence&#8221; becomes a pattern and a fixation, I&#8217;m no longer so sure.  After all, the rhetoric about abortion-providers being &#8220;murderers&#8221; has led to abortion-providers getting murdered for real.
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71935</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71935</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s very, very, very likely it would have passed even if the church had strongly opposed it. Where the church&#039;s endorsement might be helpful is if/when the state legislature takes up the issue.  

And if one reads the church&#039;s full statement, they again make it clear that they still think gays are second class citizens and that they won&#039;t hesitate to smack us down if we try to get all uppity. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;The Church supports these ordinances because they are fair and reasonable and do not do violence to the institution of marriage. They are also entirely consistent with the Church’s prior position on these matters. The Church remains unequivocally committed to defending the bedrock foundation of marriage between a man and a woman. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

They think they&#039;re being kind and generous in &quot;letting&quot; us have a few small rights in liberal downtown SLC.  The condescension is simply overwhelming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s very, very, very likely it would have passed even if the church had strongly opposed it. Where the church&#8217;s endorsement might be helpful is if/when the state legislature takes up the issue.  </p>
<p>And if one reads the church&#8217;s full statement, they again make it clear that they still think gays are second class citizens and that they won&#8217;t hesitate to smack us down if we try to get all uppity. </p>
<blockquote><p>The Church supports these ordinances because they are fair and reasonable and do not do violence to the institution of marriage. They are also entirely consistent with the Church’s prior position on these matters. The Church remains unequivocally committed to defending the bedrock foundation of marriage between a man and a woman. </p></blockquote>
<p>They think they&#8217;re being kind and generous in &#8220;letting&#8221; us have a few small rights in liberal downtown SLC.  The condescension is simply overwhelming.
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		<title>By: LdChino</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71933</link>
		<dc:creator>LdChino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71933</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve pulled it all together and added a damning video of Paul in action to create this new Daily Kos diary:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/12/803760/-Ultra-Mormon-Sutherland-Institute-in-Open-Revolt-against-LDS-leadership

Pls welcome to check it out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve pulled it all together and added a damning video of Paul in action to create this new Daily Kos diary:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/12/803760/-Ultra-Mormon-Sutherland-Institute-in-Open-Revolt-against-LDS-leadership" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/12/803760/-Ultra-Mormon-Sutherland-Institute-in-Open-Revolt-against-LDS-leadership</a></p>
<p>Pls welcome to check it out!
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		<title>By: chanson</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71931</link>
		<dc:creator>chanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71931</guid>
		<description>Chino -- That&#039;s an excellent point, and is definitely cause for some good cheer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chino &#8212; That&#8217;s an excellent point, and is definitely cause for some good cheer.
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		<title>By: Chino Blanco</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71925</link>
		<dc:creator>Chino Blanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71925</guid>
		<description>Here is why I&#039;m happy with the statement of support from the LDS church ...

Because it results in competing statements like this:

&lt;b&gt;Statement: Sutherland Institute Opposes SLC Ordinances on Anti-Discrimination&lt;/b&gt;

http://www.fox13now.com/news/seenontv/kstu-statement-sutherland-insti-opposes-slc-laws,0,7852153.story

Check out the first comment left in response to Sutherland&#039;s statement:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I am not sure what the Sutherland group thinks they are doing, but the Brethren have spoken. No more needs to be said. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://www.topix.com/forum/living/wedding/TCM50L0JQ45S34M7B

Folks like Sutherland&#039;s Paul Mero have built careers peddling the notion that &quot;sexual orientation&quot; and &quot;gender identity&quot; are figments of disordered minds.  With the LDS church now suddenly supporting ordinances that include this &quot;make-believe&quot; terminology, it&#039;s obvious that the LDS church has come down squarely on the side of treating LGBT folks as if they actually do exist.

My latest YouTube:

Sutherland Institute: Allowing SLC&#039;s so-called &#039;homosexuals&#039; to work and find housing = gay marriage 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEvEWTGR5o

The Sutherland Institute are the biggest bunch of WATBs in Utah, and now they&#039;re on their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is why I&#8217;m happy with the statement of support from the LDS church &#8230;</p>
<p>Because it results in competing statements like this:</p>
<p><b>Statement: Sutherland Institute Opposes SLC Ordinances on Anti-Discrimination</b></p>
<p><a href="http://www.fox13now.com/news/seenontv/kstu-statement-sutherland-insti-opposes-slc-laws,0,7852153.story" rel="nofollow">http://www.fox13now.com/news/seenontv/kstu-statement-sutherland-insti-opposes-slc-laws,0,7852153.story</a></p>
<p>Check out the first comment left in response to Sutherland&#8217;s statement:</p>
<blockquote><p>I am not sure what the Sutherland group thinks they are doing, but the Brethren have spoken. No more needs to be said. </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.topix.com/forum/living/wedding/TCM50L0JQ45S34M7B" rel="nofollow">http://www.topix.com/forum/living/wedding/TCM50L0JQ45S34M7B</a></p>
<p>Folks like Sutherland&#8217;s Paul Mero have built careers peddling the notion that &#8220;sexual orientation&#8221; and &#8220;gender identity&#8221; are figments of disordered minds.  With the LDS church now suddenly supporting ordinances that include this &#8220;make-believe&#8221; terminology, it&#8217;s obvious that the LDS church has come down squarely on the side of treating LGBT folks as if they actually do exist.</p>
<p>My latest YouTube:</p>
<p>Sutherland Institute: Allowing SLC&#8217;s so-called &#8216;homosexuals&#8217; to work and find housing = gay marriage </p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEvEWTGR5o" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEvEWTGR5o</a></p>
<p>The Sutherland Institute are the biggest bunch of WATBs in Utah, and now they&#8217;re on their own.
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		<title>By: The so-called destructiveness of gay marriage &#171; Irresistible (Dis)Grace</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71924</link>
		<dc:creator>The so-called destructiveness of gay marriage &#171; Irresistible (Dis)Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71924</guid>
		<description>[...] destructiveness of gay&#160;marriage November 11, 2009 &#8212; Andrew   In response to the LDS church&#8217;s seemingly monumental support of certain gay rights (&#8220;common sense&#8221; anti-discrimination measures &#8212; they haven&#8217;t said anything [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] destructiveness of gay&nbsp;marriage November 11, 2009 &#8212; Andrew   In response to the LDS church&#8217;s seemingly monumental support of certain gay rights (&#8220;common sense&#8221; anti-discrimination measures &#8212; they haven&#8217;t said anything [...]
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		<title>By: kuri</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71920</link>
		<dc:creator>kuri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71920</guid>
		<description>I guess this is progress, but the (self-)congratulatory tone of the whole thing really, &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; reminds me of this bit by Chris Rock (pardon the language):
&lt;blockquote&gt;
You know the worst thing about niggas? Niggas always want credit for some shit they supposed to do. A nigga&#039;ll brag about some shit a normal man just does. A nigga&#039;ll say some shit like &#039;I take care of my kids.&#039; You supposed to you dumb muthafucker! What kind of ignorant shit is that! &#039;I ain&#039;t never been to jail!&#039; What do you want, a cookie?! You&#039;re not supposed to go to jail you low expectation-having motherfucker!
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&quot;We&#039;re against job and housing discrimination against gay people.&quot;

&quot;What do you want, a cookie? You&#039;re SUPPOSED to be against it!&quot; It&#039;s 2009. Other cities passed ordinances like that 10, 20, even 30 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess this is progress, but the (self-)congratulatory tone of the whole thing really, <i>really</i> reminds me of this bit by Chris Rock (pardon the language):</p>
<blockquote><p>
You know the worst thing about niggas? Niggas always want credit for some shit they supposed to do. A nigga&#8217;ll brag about some shit a normal man just does. A nigga&#8217;ll say some shit like &#8216;I take care of my kids.&#8217; You supposed to you dumb muthafucker! What kind of ignorant shit is that! &#8216;I ain&#8217;t never been to jail!&#8217; What do you want, a cookie?! You&#8217;re not supposed to go to jail you low expectation-having motherfucker!
</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;We&#8217;re against job and housing discrimination against gay people.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;What do you want, a cookie? You&#8217;re SUPPOSED to be against it!&#8221; It&#8217;s 2009. Other cities passed ordinances like that 10, 20, even 30 years ago.
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		<title>By: profxm</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71919</link>
		<dc:creator>profxm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71919</guid>
		<description>I call this a leaf from an olive branch of peace with the LGBTQ community (carefully veiled in threats that same-sex marriage will &quot;never&quot; pass in Utah).  It&#039;s more than nothing, but not much more than nothing.  Even so, kudos to LDS Inc. for doing more than nothing to reach out to LGBTQs!  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I call this a leaf from an olive branch of peace with the LGBTQ community (carefully veiled in threats that same-sex marriage will &#8220;never&#8221; pass in Utah).  It&#8217;s more than nothing, but not much more than nothing.  Even so, kudos to LDS Inc. for doing more than nothing to reach out to LGBTQs!  <img src='http://latterdaymainstreet.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />
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		<title>By: kuri</title>
		<link>http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2009/11/11/mormon-leadership-comes-out-in-support-of-some-basic-rights-for-some-lgbt-utahns/comment-page-1/#comment-71918</link>
		<dc:creator>kuri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=1149#comment-71918</guid>
		<description>&quot;...the city has granted common-sense rights that should be available to everyone...&quot;

No shit, Sherlock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;the city has granted common-sense rights that should be available to everyone&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>No shit, Sherlock.
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