Comments on: Thoughts on John R’s Excommunication

By: Seth R.

Seth R. — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:59:46 +0000

Don’t think so. Just a new presidency called. I was second counselor – so when my pres went, I went.

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By: chanson

chanson — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:05:06 +0000

Seth — was the change in calling in some way a result of your blogging?

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By: Seth R.

Seth R. — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 03:24:39 +0000

The worst thing that ever happened to me for my (not always pro-church) blogging is being “demoted” to Cub Scout leader.

But they’d already called a new Elders Quorum Presidency anyway. So I don’t even get any “martyr points” for that.

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By: Sunday in Outer Blogness: Power Edition! | Main Street Plaza

Sunday in Outer Blogness: Power Edition! | Main Street Plaza — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:36:17 +0000

[...] our discussion of John R’s impending excommunication, Holly has written an interesting series on the power of the priesthood (specifically, on its power [...]

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By: chanson

chanson — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:08:33 +0000

Hmm, that’s right — the BYU library thing.

Weirdly, though, I don’t think it’s excommunication-worthy for the following reason: When it comes to published material, it seems like they only ex people for heresy (publishing things about doctrine) or for publishing the temple ceremony or the like. Merely publishing about sinning — even if you really did do the deed (which I did) — I don’t think they’ll act on.

I could be wrong, though… We’ll find out!!!

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By: Bull

Bull — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:57:54 +0000

Nothing excommunication worthy? What about that episode in the Harold B. Lee Library bathroom? Or am I misremembering?

I simply opt to not use my real name in my blog and I don’t publicize it anywhere except on the blog roll in RfM which results in a steady if slow flow of visitors.

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By: Bull

Bull — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:37:01 +0000

My father is really funny/strange. He’s career military which is very authoritarian and chain of command driven. So is the church. But he is also a very unconventional person who seems to be attracted to strange new ideas that are out of the mainstream. Like mormonism, the John Birch Society, and all things conspiracy related. In his personal life he simply marches to his own drum.

But, the funny part, is that he constantly bucks the man and taught us to think for ourselves, as soon as the church talks, he is completely cowed and absolutely boot-licking subservient. Something that he isn’t in any other aspect of his life.

Joseph Smith simply couldn’t tolerate anyone disagreeing with him or challenging him and that authoritarian atmosphere continues to this day within the church. Everything is top down and woe to the person that dares to try to switch the direction of the flow of information.

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By: Craig

Craig — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:01:28 +0000

Yeah, I think there’s merit to her theory. I certainly felt a strong obligation to respect and obey anyone above me in the hierarchy (which was just about every male unless they were children/teenagers) because I believed (was programmed to believe) that they had some sort of unhuman, supernatural authority and power that made them able to actually make decisions and “discern” truth better than normal mortals.

Creepy, huh?

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By: chanson

chanson — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:59:06 +0000

Craig — That’s great!

Interestingly, another priesthood-holder, in accordance with Holly’s theory. Hmm, the plot thickens!

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By: Craig

Craig — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:29:03 +0000

This jumps out at me because it’s so alien to my own experience. Have other former believers felt like John has here?

When I decided to resign my membership in the church, I hand-delivered my letter to the bishop of the ward I lived in rather than mailing it. I wanted the chance to so just what John did – stand up to the church as an equal. I had by then given up all belief in the authority of the LdS church, and saw said bishop as representing an organisation that had no authority over me.

The bishop actually tried to threated me with excommunication, but I told him that I knew my legal rights, and that he couldn’t intimidate me into giving him any authority over me, at which point he backed down and said he’d process my resignation.

It was very vindicating to stand up in person to the organisation that had treated me as an inferior my entire life, and tell them where to shove it. I totally understand how John must have felt.

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