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I wish that we would do more to train officers at the ward level. There is a lot that one can learn in a weekend seminary.

There are certainly enough experts at BYU to create and teach a volunteer curriculum. The labor movement still provides quite a bit of training to their rank and file.

The results appear to be mixed, mostly because many elected officers don’t avail themselves of the opportunities.

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I think that Mormons confuse cause and effect. They see unhappy exmormons and assume it is due to their apostasy. It is just as likely that they were already unhappy as Mormons and are searching elsewhere for something that works.

One other thing that I’ve observed is that Mormonism’s answers don’t work particularly well in dealing with issues such as addiction. In fact, my own reading on the topic has made me think that Mormonism’s teachings actually make addiction problems worse. It’s almost a recipe for how to create a addict. So is it a surprise to find exmormons who are addicts? Let me ask a simple question: What does the church do to reach out to and help addicts and how successful are they? It’s difficult for me to imagine how a struggling alcoholic would fit into or be helped by any ward I’ve been a member of.

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It is quite common to hear from ex-, post-, and dissident Mormons that they felt compelled to put on a happy face.

To a degree, that is an implication of the enlightenment delusion that we can be in charge of our life and therefore are responsible for our happiness.

In Mormonism, this pathology may be amplified by the assertion that we have the one, true church.

Jay’s claims about unhappy apostates makes sense within his paradigm. How can anyone be possibly happy without the one, true church?

To some people, that statement implies that they cannot possibly be unhappy if they have the one, true church.

The need to be happy all the time can be a burden.

There all sort of emotions that are part of life. It’s nice to have the blues occasionally.

Do enjoy the full range of emotions. They mark a healthy human being.

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According to the Church, this life is a test filled with hardships that we must overcome. “Difficult marriages” being one of those tests and challenges. So of course people are going to say, “Well, if I make it past these years of hardship, I’ll have ETERNAL happiness.”

Happiness is an the ultimate gift to persuade anyone. I know all I want is to be happy.

However, in the church, I was miserable. I was told that I wasn’t spiritually good enough, I wasn’t paying enough tithe when I could barley feed myself and my brothers and sisters, I was told I was a sinner twice a week (activity days and Sundays sometimes even Saturdays), and that I wasn’t smart enough because I didn’t know ol’ Joe’s birthday and all the names in the Book of Mormon. I was told that I was sinning because I was having inappropriate thoughts of boys upon hitting puberty.

It’s awful going through something so natural and necessary only to be told that you are going to Hell for experiencing feelings that you literally can’t control.

After having my revelation (or lack there of) from reading and praying for weeks for God to tell me that it was all true and that I wasn’t wasting my one shot at life, I left. Why, Because I wasn’t afraid to put my head up high and tell everyone what I knew wasn’t true and I wasn’t afraid of telling my family and neighbors that God did NOT, in fact, give me that “warm fuzzy.”

At first I was pissed. I was soooo angry at God because he obviously didn’t think that I needed to know. Then I came to terms that is wasn’t true and that I was free!

Some people tell me I didn’t fast enough, I didn’t pray enough, I haven’t read the scriptures all the way through. They said this regardless to the fact that I have read the Book of Mormon from cover to cover five times, I was one of the few mormons that prayed every night. I actually had reason to pray, mostly to get me out of the Hell hole I was in. And I fasted. I didn’t have a choice. We never had food, so it was easy.

So I would ask them, “Did the Pharaoh of Egypt, the one who wouldn’t let Moses’es people go, go to Heaven?” When they replied no, I said, “Okay, so Pharaoh went to Hell for something he didn’t do. It says in the bible that God hardened his heart and wouldn’t “let them go.” That is to say that he would have “made the right choice” by letting them go if God hadn’t have interfered. MANY times, he would have let them go if God were not just trying to teach a lesson and to test his children.

So Pharaoh went to Hell because he did things that God made him do. This means that we have no freedom of choice according to your church because God is going to make us do things anyway no matter what we ourselves decide. Therefore negating the most important part of what you believe.”

Then they would say, “So Pharaoh went to heaven.” My reply being, “Right, so if God has ‘hardened MY heart’ enough to ignore me my entire life and put me through shit even though I was one of the most devout “saints” then obviously, this is where I’m meant to be. If I’m meant to also be a test to your faith, then I also have no control over my beliefs because God doesn’t want me to. So, then I’m still on the right path because I have no choice and will also go to heaven. See ya there!”

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That was a low blow. even my kidneys hurt. D:

I dunno, I kinda get what Hellmut is saying (even if he could perhaps have put it more tactfully ). There’s a certain pressure in Mormonism to always appear happy and successful. Plus, the standard solution to various problems is to pray harder and study the scriptures more, which kind of implies that if you’re unhappy, it’s because you’re not doing a good enough job of living the gospel.

This can have positive effects (people who will themselves to be happy may actually succeed) or negative effects (people who are unhappy may compound their unhappiness by feeling guilty and ashamed of it).

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In fact, the ability to enjoy all sorts of emotions instead of feeling permanently compelled to appear happy and blessed, may well be among the greatest advantages of surrendering Mormon orthodoxy and its conventions.

That was a low blow. even my kidneys hurt. D:

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First, people who are unhappy have a motive to change. If they were happy, they would not have to look for alternatives to the LDS Church.

Second, Mormonism may be a suboptimal maximum. If you are located on a local maximum and need to get to a higher maximum, you will first have to march through the valley.

As there are no guarantees in life, there will be casualties along the way.

Having said that, Mormons have no monopoly on happiness. All kind of people enjoy the full spectrum of emotions.

In fact, the ability to enjoy all sorts of emotions instead of feeling permanently compelled to appear happy and blessed, may well be among the greatest advantages of surrendering Mormon orthodoxy and its conventions.

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But this struck many of Mormon-corridor companions as unbelievable. Because they had been raised in mostly or all-Mormon environments, they had observed Mormons filling all the dysfunctional social niches. So by their reasoning, non-Mormon behavior must of course reside even outside those.

At the same time, people who define themselves primarily in terms of kicking against the pricks are probably going to have problems playing with others, no matter what the circumstances. This episode of This American Life matches a Mormon example against two examples unrelated to organized religion (click the orange Full Episode button).

This is why revolutionary movements–long after the actual revolution–spend so much time obsessed with destroying the “counter-revolutionary” elements.

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I was particularly disturbed by the comment response, but then, I didn’t link directly to Jill’s story, so I don’t know what he would say after reading the first person report. It seemed incredibly convenient, as you said.

re 2:

That’s really the weirdest thing about it, bloggernacleburner. The Jon who wrote the post *definitely* sounds different than the Jon who wrote the comments, but then again, there are no links on the name, so it could just be someone with an alias, two different Jons, etc.,

re 3:

I can see what you mean, especially the last part about whether we can recognize that many lifestyles can lead to happiness vs. only being able to recognize that our own lifestyle leads to happiness.

It just seems intuitive to me to trust others when they say they are happy already…which is why I’ve always been wary of missionary work, the “one true path” reasoning, etc., From a practical, empirical standpoint, you can *see* that people of other lifestyles can have happiness, so it seems that if you do believe that your lifestyle is THE correct one, I am at a loss for words at how you can maintain this position!

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