Comments on: The Stakes of 8

By: circus watcher

circus watcher — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:16:22 +0000

I agree with you Hellmut.
Another way to look at it is to recognize that the mere tiny human being can make an error in this matter. Is it best to err on the side of compassion and support, or on the side of anger and judgemental damnation?

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By: Hellmut

Hellmut — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:50:06 +0000

Thanks, Keith!

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By: Keithb

Keithb — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:39:38 +0000

I agree.
I think you are thinking of Friends though and not Brethren. The Religous Society of Friends are known as Quakers. There are some similarities between the two groups, for example both emphasize simplicity. I don’t know where Brethren stand on open debate, but for Friends this value does come from the testimony of simplicity.

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By: Hellmut

Hellmut — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:30:04 +0000

I agree, MoHoHawaii, injustice affects everyone. The Church hurts our gay children by defining them as evil for acting on their sex drive. The Church hurts our straight children by proclaiming prejudice true and discrimination virtuous.

A little bit of humility would go a long way. We should at least try to subordinate our opinions to logic and evidence.

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By: MoHoHawaii

MoHoHawaii — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:10:42 +0000

I read the thread on BCC. I thought Steve Evans’ position was angry and defensive, and I absolutely disagree with banning people from the debate. I don’t comment on BCC anymore because I don’t feel it operates in a spirit of openness for diversity. If you are not orthodox you more or less are not welcome on BCC, even if you are sincere and respectful. BCC is a microcosm of the LDS Church more generally. It’s a real shame.

You mention the cost of Church-sponsored gay baiting on gay youth. This certainly happens, and I experienced it myself as a young person. It was horrible.

There is also an impact on youth who are not gay. As the Church boxes itself into a position on social issues that is out of step with its host culture, it inevitably moves itself towards the fringe of society. This happened with the Church’s opposition to the civil rights movement in the 1960s, and it’s happening right under our noses today. Many young people will feel conflicted when their sense of social justice and fairness cannot be reconciled with what they hear over the pulpit. Supporters of Prop 8 may someday be able to say that they were successful stripping some children and stay-at-home parents of their health insurance and survivor benefits. Is that dubious achievement really worth the cost to the unity and humanity of the Church?

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By: Guy Noir Private Eye

Guy Noir Private Eye — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 16:29:25 +0000

But surely the GAs & local leaders are sensitive to all members & people who hear these talks, see the lengths tscc is going to suppress SSM…. Aren’t they?
I think the evidence that the gay/lesbian orientation – lifestyle is (mostly?) genetically determined or at least foreshadowed is irrefutable.

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