Comments on: The Beginning of the End http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/ A Community for Anyone Interested in Mormonism. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:55:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sister Mary Lisa http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-812 Sister Mary Lisa Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:12:09 +0000 http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=112#comment-812 Great post, LB. I'm always fascinated to read the thoughts and feelings that women describe that are similar to the feelings I had as I struggled to remain faithful, good, and be an example to my non-member husband in a vain attempt to cause the impossible to happen. Ugh. I'm so glad you two are where you are now. Great post, LB. I’m always fascinated to read the thoughts and feelings that women describe that are similar to the feelings I had as I struggled to remain faithful, good, and be an example to my non-member husband in a vain attempt to cause the impossible to happen. Ugh. I’m so glad you two are where you are now.

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]]> By: Lemon Blossom http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-782 Lemon Blossom Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:17:37 +0000 http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=112#comment-782 Thank you for your responses, everyone. Sorry, we have been having computer problems so I haven't had time to reply to your comments until now. Hellmut – The past 5 years have been harder than I ever expected life could be. I'm hoping that means it'll get easier now. :) I used to think the example thing was helpful and good for everyone, but now I do see the guilt and responsibility we take on when we shouldn't. I'm glad that your friend has found a healthy avenue for himself to work through his feelings. I have a friend who worked in an S&M community as well and am so glad that she has changed my image and opinion of it. I also love the points you make later on about the leaders needing to lash out at the members because of the leaders representing an infallible God. I had never thought of it that way. Lilly of the Field – Thank you. Unfortunately I was one of those people who assumed that an apostate must have sinned (ugh, I really hate that part of myself now) and understand how he could have thought that way. I didn't see it then, but I do see it now, just how insulting it really is. I am so glad that my eyes have been opened. Glasstangerine – I love the way you put that, “remember the vulnerability of our human experience.” So true and beautifully put. Thank you. Equality – My counselor was enthralled and astounded when I was talking to her about how isolated we can be. It was only when I found the bloggernacle and then the DAMU that I stopped feeling so alone. I really look up to those people who did it without this support because I know it must have made it so much harder. KingM – Thank you. Me too! CV Rick – I still feel like a baby when it comes to these things, so much to learn and understand. I am only now beginning to understand the Mormon guilt, but I do see clearly how damaging it is for someone to always feel it is their fault and never the organization's fault. I am still trying to overcome this way of thinking. Thank you for your responses, everyone. Sorry, we have been having computer problems so I haven’t had time to reply to your comments until now.

Hellmut – The past 5 years have been harder than I ever expected life could be. I’m hoping that means it’ll get easier now. :)

I used to think the example thing was helpful and good for everyone, but now I do see the guilt and responsibility we take on when we shouldn’t.

I’m glad that your friend has found a healthy avenue for himself to work through his feelings. I have a friend who worked in an S&M community as well and am so glad that she has changed my image and opinion of it.

I also love the points you make later on about the leaders needing to lash out at the members because of the leaders representing an infallible God. I had never thought of it that way.

Lilly of the Field – Thank you. Unfortunately I was one of those people who assumed that an apostate must have sinned (ugh, I really hate that part of myself now) and understand how he could have thought that way. I didn’t see it then, but I do see it now, just how insulting it really is. I am so glad that my eyes have been opened.

Glasstangerine – I love the way you put that, “remember the vulnerability of our human experience.” So true and beautifully put. Thank you.

Equality – My counselor was enthralled and astounded when I was talking to her about how isolated we can be. It was only when I found the bloggernacle and then the DAMU that I stopped feeling so alone. I really look up to those people who did it without this support because I know it must have made it so much harder.

KingM – Thank you. Me too!

CV Rick – I still feel like a baby when it comes to these things, so much to learn and understand. I am only now beginning to understand the Mormon guilt, but I do see clearly how damaging it is for someone to always feel it is their fault and never the organization’s fault. I am still trying to overcome this way of thinking.

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]]> By: CV Rick http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-780 CV Rick Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:17:58 +0000 http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=112#comment-780 I hate that Mormon guilt . . . the assumption of sin everywhere, in everyone, the cause of all misfortune. (Wealth in Mormons is a sign of virtue and abiding by commandments, poverty is a sign of sin.) To question any part of the church is not a sign that the church or gospel has faults, but that you do. AARRGGGHHH!!! Let me at them. I need to calm down a bit. I hate that Mormon guilt . . . the assumption of sin everywhere, in everyone, the cause of all misfortune. (Wealth in Mormons is a sign of virtue and abiding by commandments, poverty is a sign of sin.) To question any part of the church is not a sign that the church or gospel has faults, but that you do. AARRGGGHHH!!!

Let me at them.

I need to calm down a bit.

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]]> By: KingM http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-775 KingM Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:45:14 +0000 http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=112#comment-775 Sounds difficult, but I'm glad you came out the other side. Sounds difficult, but I’m glad you came out the other side.

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]]> By: Hellmut http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-772 Hellmut Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:20:57 +0000 http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=112#comment-772 Lilly makes an important point. Mormonism always has to blame the members because its leaders are claiming to represent God. Therefore it is impossible to admit error, especially not when it comes to the Mormon origin myth. Unfortunately, that also creates a situtation where it is difficult for Mormon bishops to minister to the members. In light of the historical evidence, LDS officials have to choose between their organization or the members. Attacking the members is the only option if one is determined to respond to doubt. Fortunately, I have also seen leaders that refrained from defending the LDS Church rather than attacking those who trusted them. Lilly makes an important point.

Mormonism always has to blame the members because its leaders are claiming to represent God. Therefore it is impossible to admit error, especially not when it comes to the Mormon origin myth.

Unfortunately, that also creates a situtation where it is difficult for Mormon bishops to minister to the members. In light of the historical evidence, LDS officials have to choose between their organization or the members. Attacking the members is the only option if one is determined to respond to doubt.

Fortunately, I have also seen leaders that refrained from defending the LDS Church rather than attacking those who trusted them.

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]]> By: Equality http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-771 Equality Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:45:09 +0000 http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=112#comment-771 The last line says it all. The way the church culture so effectively silences people who do not toe the party line is one of its most salient, and disturbing, characteristics. Were it not so, there would be no need for the DAMU or, for that matter, the Bloggernacle. The last line says it all. The way the church culture so effectively silences people who do not toe the party line is one of its most salient, and disturbing, characteristics. Were it not so, there would be no need for the DAMU or, for that matter, the Bloggernacle.

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]]> By: glasstangerine http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-770 glasstangerine Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:54:41 +0000 http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=112#comment-770 Thank you for sharing that Lemon. It's nice to remember the vulnerability of our human experience. At any moment it can change and flip everything upside down. Then later we get use to it and think that it has 'always been this way.' In tough times it is nice to remember that we have made it through tough times before. In good times it's good to remember we got their through our own blood sweat and tears so to speak. Your piece captured that moment in time very well. Thank you for sharing that Lemon. It’s nice to remember the vulnerability of our human experience. At any moment it can change and flip everything upside down. Then later we get use to it and think that it has ‘always been this way.’ In tough times it is nice to remember that we have made it through tough times before. In good times it’s good to remember we got their through our own blood sweat and tears so to speak. Your piece captured that moment in time very well.

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]]> By: lilly of the field http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-768 lilly of the field Wed, 20 Jun 2007 04:07:45 +0000 http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=112#comment-768 My heart goes out to you and Gluby for the way that Bishop treated you. I've always found it incredibly insulting when people attribute problems you may be having to a sin that hasn't happened. Especially in Gluby's case, he had committed no sin, unless doubt could be considered one. Thank you for sharing this part of your story. Lilly My heart goes out to you and Gluby for the way that Bishop treated you. I’ve always found it incredibly insulting when people attribute problems you may be having to a sin that hasn’t happened. Especially in Gluby’s case, he had committed no sin, unless doubt could be considered one. Thank you for sharing this part of your story.

Lilly

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]]> By: Hellmut http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2007/06/19/the-beginning-of-the-end/comment-page-1/#comment-766 Hellmut Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:41:41 +0000 http://latterdaymainstreet.com/?p=112#comment-766 That must have been hard, Lemon Blossom. I hate the example thing in Mormonism. One of my friends felt that he had to obtain his mother's salvation by being a good example to his non-member dad. So much for a happy childhood. My friend is an RM and produces bondage photography, movies, and provides services to the S&M community. He says that it is his way of working through the feeling of having been trapped. He is living a responsible life and is a kind person. That must have been hard, Lemon Blossom.

I hate the example thing in Mormonism. One of my friends felt that he had to obtain his mother’s salvation by being a good example to his non-member dad. So much for a happy childhood.

My friend is an RM and produces bondage photography, movies, and provides services to the S&M community. He says that it is his way of working through the feeling of having been trapped.

He is living a responsible life and is a kind person.

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